NFL 2016

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:04 pm

Giants wrote:I'll believe Vegas is happening when the owners vote for it and not a minute sooner. Not so much about the gambling issue as about the market size (too damn small) and Mark Davis's personal wealth (not enough to handle it if things fail, this is why Stan Kroenke got the nod over the Raiders/Chargers plan in LA). Ratings are down for the first time ever, and that means literally anything can happen (except for a publically funded stadium in the Bay Area of course).

The NFL right now reminds me NASCAR in the early 2000s. NASCAR was so sure they were going to be hot shit for decades to come that the alienated a lot of the traditional Southern fan base by taking races away from places like Darlington and abandoning Rockingham altogether for another race in Vegas or Kansas, wanted to build a speedway on Long Island to capture the New York tv market and now the Brickyard 400 is half empty and I couldn't name a dozen NASCAR drivers after watching pretty much every race from 1998-2003.

The NFL thought they were unstoppable. Glad to see them humbled a bit

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:11 pm

Twins wrote:If they have an NHL expansion team in Vegas, I can see football happening quite easily.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expands-to ... -281010682

The problem is never putting a team in a city, it is the sustaining of it. Yeah, they put an NHL team in Phoenix (a top 15 media market) and that team is on the verge of collapse...probably should have died a few years back if not for all the help of the league. Just because an owner has a lot of money to make something happen doesn't mean you will find die hard fans to keep it going after the 3-5 year honeymoon period has worn off.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:17 pm

Cardinals wrote: I couldn't name a dozen NASCAR drivers after watching pretty much every race from 1998-2003.

I still can...but I am die hard fan and am pissed by the whole cookie cutter track thing. I wish they had more tracks and stopped building so many stands expecting people to show up to them. Coverage has gotten so much better through tv/online not to mention going to the track for the weekend has turned from the $500 family vacation to $500 per person.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:29 pm

Brickyard only being half empty is amazing. That's by far the most boring race to watch.

Not being able to fill Bristol is a joke.

Road courses are selling out, but NASCAR doesn't own those tracks and Dale Jr. hates road courses, so they won't take on more road courses any time soon.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:49 pm

Orioles wrote:Road courses are selling out, but NASCAR doesn't own those tracks and Dale Jr. hates road courses, so they won't take on more road courses any time soon.

They are selling out because you actually get some entertaining racing through both fuel mileage and on course action (who knew heavy cars with minimal down-force would be constantly squirrely) versus the grand prix cars which have become the wherever you start you finish because they have no ability to pass.

NASCAR has addressed the procession line cookie cutter tracks a bit with the low down-force aero package which is nice since drivers actually have to be good at driving again.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:23 pm

Leave it to Aaron and the Stevphens to ruin an NFL discussion with NASCAR...

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:31 pm

I'll bring it back, can we talk for a second about how terrible Colin Kaepernick was? I'm really starting to believe that this protest was about making it untenable to cut him. Applause to him for betting on himself with the contract renegotation but that bet is NOT paying off.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:53 pm

Giants wrote:I'll bring it back, can we talk for a second about how terrible Colin Kaepernick was? I'm really starting to believe that this protest was about making it untenable to cut him. Applause to him for betting on himself with the contract renegotation but that bet is NOT paying off.

Kaepernick was pretty bad, but he wasn't the worst QB this sunday. Wentz, Flacco and Fitz were all definitely worse. How much of that was Kaepernick and how much of that is the Buffalo defense... I dunno to be honest. And it's not like SF exactly has solid pieces on offense to work with. And we know Chip Kelly is a schmuck. Him getting another gig was even more surprising than Rex Ryan getting another shot.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:09 pm

Tigers wrote:Leave it to Aaron and the Stevphens to ruin an NFL discussion with NASCAR...

Hey, it wasn't just NASCAR...I included F1 and IRL sort of.

Giants wrote:I'll bring it back, can we talk for a second about how terrible Colin Kaepernick was? I'm really starting to believe that this protest was about making it untenable to cut him. Applause to him for betting on himself with the contract renegotiation but that bet is NOT paying off.

Kaep still can't make more than one read before his instinct tells him to run and while his passing technique might have improved from awful to passable, that still won't get him far.

He would be better off turning himself into a WR...he can still run fast, he is tall, maybe he can catch. He already has the Prima Donna attitude that would fit right in with that crowd.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:17 pm

Padres wrote:
Giants wrote:I'll bring it back, can we talk for a second about how terrible Colin Kaepernick was? I'm really starting to believe that this protest was about making it untenable to cut him. Applause to him for betting on himself with the contract renegotation but that bet is NOT paying off.
Kaepernick was pretty bad, but he wasn't the worst QB this sunday. Wentz, Flacco and Fitz were all definitely worse. How much of that was Kaepernick and how much of that is the Buffalo defense... I dunno to be honest. And it's not like SF exactly has solid pieces on offense to work with. And we know Chip Kelly is a schmuck. Him getting another gig was even more surprising than Rex Ryan getting another shot.

Perhaps masochistically I watched that entire game. He wasn't worse than Fitzpatrick I guess, but the others? Definitely. The Bills were consistently leaving guys open 8-15 yards downfield knowing Kaep couldn't fit it inthe window and then sticking guys in the box to contain his legs. It wasn't so much a bad performance as a hopeless one, even his one big play came on a ball so badly underthrown that Torrey Smith essentially played it like a punt return and managed to elude the defenders. I'll tell you, Torrey Smith deserves better (never thought I'd say that).

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:19 am

Here's a question I'm wondering as I have a soft spot for the Bengals... How the hell does Marvin Lewis still have a job? How do you coach for a team for 14 years and not win a single playoff game? To give an idea of how unprecedented Marvin Lewis' playoff failures are, he is the only playoff coach in NFL history to sit at 0-7. Only one other coach has ever been 0-6, that was Jim "Playoffs!?!" Mora, who had to do it with two teams, the Colts and Saints.
Seriously, how does Lewis still have a job? Why on earth would Cinci not say "This guy clearly doesn't have it" and move on? I just don't understand it.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:35 am

I've been saying for years that Lewis shouldn't have a job. Team always seems to be a mess too with dysfunctional players.

Also don't know why people think Jeff ".500" Fisher is a good coach, either.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:37 am

^Because of Fisher's 'stash

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:47 am

Padres wrote:Here's a question I'm wondering as I have a soft spot for the Bengals... How the hell does Marvin Lewis still have a job? How do you coach for a team for 14 years and not win a single playoff game? To give an idea of how unprecedented Marvin Lewis' playoff failures are, he is the only playoff coach in NFL history to sit at 0-7. Only one other coach has ever been 0-6, that was Jim "Playoffs!?!" Mora, who had to do it with two teams, the Colts and Saints.
Seriously, how does Lewis still have a job? Why on earth would Cinci not say "This guy clearly doesn't have it" and move on? I just don't understand it.

Mike Brown is the cheapest owner in sports and wouldn't want to pay him the rest of his contract and hire someone new. Hell he wouldn't pay for the Bengals cheerleaders to go to the Super Bowl in 1988. The Bengals didn't have a SCOUTING DEPARTMENT until Lewis was hired because Brown was too cheap

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:46 am

Weren't at least two or three of those seasons wrecked by a Dalton or other star injury right before or during the WC game, hence automatic reprive?

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:44 am

Week 14 was certainly interesting. I had to check on a few Broncos fans I know to make sure they hadn't jumped off a cliff after that embarrassment against Tennessee.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:47 am

GGGGMMMEEEENNN!

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:46 am

Forgot to post how happy I am about Ryan Grigson being fired. Still need Pagano to get the ax but I'm hoping the new GM will do that upon being hired.

In 2012 he actually did a good job. But after that he's been a disaster. The moment I knew it was the Trent Richardson trade. At the time, a lot of people were praising it, I hated it from the second I heard about it. He panicked because Vick Ballard got hurt, didn't trust Donald Brown, didn't go see a free agent, but gave away a first for the worst running back I've ever seen in my life. Then there's all the draft busts since 2012. The fact that there are 2 defensive players on the roster he's drafted in 5 years. All of the free agent busts. He sucked, he should've been fired last year.

Now you need to go Chuck, you've ran out of scapegoats to blame

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:15 am

Cardinals wrote:Forgot to post how happy I am about Ryan Grigson being fired. Still need Pagano to get the ax but I'm hoping the new GM will do that upon being hired.

In 2012 he actually did a good job. But after that he's been a disaster. The moment I knew it was the Trent Richardson trade. At the time, a lot of people were praising it, I hated it from the second I heard about it. He panicked because Vick Ballard got hurt, didn't trust Donald Brown, didn't go see a free agent, but gave away a first for the worst running back I've ever seen in my life. Then there's all the draft busts since 2012. The fact that there are 2 defensive players on the roster he's drafted in 5 years. All of the free agent busts. He sucked, he should've been fired last year.

Now you need to go Chuck, you've ran out of scapegoats to blame

Aaron may find this hard to believe, but I agree. I like Andrew Luck, he's a talented guy who deserves better than to see his talents wasted like they have been. I think McDaniels as HC with the right GM could be really good for the Colts.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:24 am

I think Josh McDaniels is the Lane Kiffin of the NFL. He was a dumpster fire in Denver. He's only won with Brady (like Lane only won with Saban). Add in the fact that nobody of the Bellicheck coaching tree has ever really had success and I wouldn't hire him

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:39 am

Cardinals wrote:I think Josh McDaniels is the Lane Kiffin of the NFL. He was a dumpster fire in Denver. He's only won with Brady (like Lane only won with Saban). Add in the fact that nobody of the Bellicheck coaching tree has ever really had success and I wouldn't hire him

Can't say I blame you there. And you might very well be right. But then, the same might have been said about Belichick after his stint in Cleveland. The Denver team was a wreck with an a-hole QB (what's Cutler up to these days?) and, from all reports, McDaniels went in trying to be Belichick. Denver didn't want to give McDaniels the time needed to turn the team aroundWhich doesn't work unless you ARE Belichick. There's a lot to be said for giving young coaches second chances, provided they take some time to reflect and learn from their screwups.
Besides, who else is there, really? It's going to be someone untested or some other retread.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:47 am

Cardinals wrote:Add in the fact that nobody of the Bellicheck coaching tree has ever really had success and I wouldn't hire him

There was a really interesting article I read a week or so ago, if I can find it I'll link it, that talked about the BB coaching tree and NFL coaches versus college. It made the argument that Belichick's method works because Belichick has all the control. This is what Belichick's coaches learn.

When his coaches go off to coach in College they do okay, because College coaches commonly get that level of control. In the NFL, they haven't gotten that level of control; they don't make the personnel choices, or even get to choose the GM they will have to work with. And that's what McDaniels is holding out for and why he turned down SF, he wants to either be the Gm or pick his GM, rather than being stuck with a critical relationship with someone he doesn't trust or work well with.

How many of the coaches off BB's tree have worked with good GMs? Without digging I'm going to give a confident guess of: None. So how are they supposed to turn around a bad franchise when they have to work with a shitty GM?

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:54 am

McDaniels drafted Tim Tebow in the first round. I think they traded up for him if memory serves me correctly. So that's why he'll never be a GM or have roster control

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:14 am

Cardinals wrote:McDaniels drafted Tim Tebow in the first round. I think they traded up for him if memory serves me correctly. So that's why he'll never be a GM or have roster control

He did. But, Tebow wasn't seen then as nearly the absurd choice he looks like now. Who would have thought that someone who comes across as such a 'team guy' would turn out to be so stubborn and uncoachable?

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:37 am

Padres wrote:There was a really interesting article I read a week or so ago, if I can find it I'll link it, that talked about the BB coaching tree and NFL coaches versus college. It made the argument that Belichick's method works because Belichick has all the control. This is what Belichick's coaches learn.

I think that this is true but I think that it also goes beyond talent acquisition and therefore beyond the GM level. Belichick's guys learn a day-to-day philosophy on how to instill discipline and work ethic that can take years to teach and cultivate, depending on the initial makeup of the roster. Even with Brady and even with his amazing performance as a GM, Belichick would not have had the incredible amount of success that he has had without that component.

Since being a coach on his staff doesn't necessarily require the ability to recognize talent that he has, to have sustained success elsewhere they need an excellent GM as you said, and they also need an ownership group absolutely committed to that philosophy, even though it eliminates a number of talented players and doesn't excite fans. That is a lot to ask in the NFL and I'm not sure that any of his guys who have gotten head NFL jobs have gotten either component, much less both.